The situation in Italy is delicate, due to the pandemic, the liberticidal policies of its ruling class, the economic conjuncture and the pressure of global elites. We try to understand more through this interview with Marco Rizzo, general secretary of Partito Comunista in Italy.

People are tired, of the oppression, blackmailing and discrimination which Mario Draghi is pushing upon Italians. Are political parties also tired? What is your interpretation of their choice to keep Mattarella in charge as President of the Republic rather than appoint the well-known financier Draghi? How important is that role? Has Sergio Mattarella been a true guarantor of the Constitution?

The scene offered by the main Italian parties in Parliament, during the election of the President of the Republic, is the lowest point of the political life of our Republic. Similar events can be found only back in the ‘shifting alliances’ during the monarchic period.

We witnessed not only the ‘market of the votes,’ the candidacy of absurd characters, but even the lack of control of parties’ leaderships on their MPs. The latter is not moved by a democratic spirit, but just by their blind personal interests.

In this political vacuum, international finance, in which Italy is not the main actor and not even a marginal character, can enter as a knife in butter. Political mediation is overtaken by the ‘survival of the fittest’ and decisions are made far away from democratic institutions. This is bad news for Italian people, as even the feeblest constitutional protections of the bourgeois system are crushed.

It has been said that the policy is being replaced by politics: the management comes before the political decisions, which are made somewhere else. It is evident that there were external powers pushing for Draghi’s election, who will soon have to face the consequences of his bad governance. The evidence is that the Partito Democratico, the biggest Nato and European Union supporter, was trying to obstruct Mattarella’s re-election, by proposing a change in constitution which would ban the re-election. The aim was to clear the path for Draghi’s election. After the muddling of the situation in the Parliament, they went back and pushed for Mattarella.

It is evident that the orders came from outside, ignoring what the parties said and did until that moment.

Instead of resigning, parties’ leaderships rejoiced over victory. What kind of victory? Over their own dignity?

The centre-right wing was crushed. the centre-left wing was happy to serve the interests of finance. The Movimento 5 Stelle loses a chance again, maybe the last, to show livelihood. We cannot know what Mattarella will do in the next years. We hope he could oppose this situation. Should he resign in 2 years, this will open the doors to Draghi’s election. He may be keeping the chair warm for him.

What interpretation can we give to Giuliano Amato’s election as President of the Constitutional Court and Franco Frattini’s as President of State Council?

Amato’s election is a habit: the deputy succeeds the President. I would not make a scandal out of it. Frattini’s election is more complex. Anyway they are both part of the establishment, and they are obviously not a threat for the real rulers of Italy.

Where will Italian justice be led by Minister Cartabia’s reform proposal?

I am not a jurist and I do not venture into analysing highly technical matters regarding the legal system. As a politician I listen to the strong criticisms coming from Italian judges. As for other emergencies, such as health and education system, the solution offered is always ‘politics’ instead of ‘policy,’ concentrated in a few hands instead of democratic empowerment serving the interest of the people.

The scene staged for the election of the President of the Republic and the so called “Government of the better” set off an unusual ‘marriage’: how is it possible that the Partito Democratico was the biggest supporter of the former Central European Bank President (Mario Draghi)? We remember the historical turning point of the ‘Bolognina’ on the 3rd February 1991, when the proposal of Achille Occhetto, (supported among others by Massimo D’Alema, Walter Veltroni and Piero Fassino) led to the dissolution of the Partito Comunista Italiano and its transformation in Partito Democratico della Sinistra. What social class does the Partito Democratico represent now?

The only Democratic thing in that party is the abuse of the name. That party is the biggest supporter and servant of external interests. In both economic policy and foreign policy it is always on the USA’s side and against the interests of the wide majority of the Italian people. Its big influence in the media is the only thing which brings them votes. Its derivation from the old Partito Comunista Italiano is completely non-existent. The ‘Christian Democratic’ heritage is way more important in that party and it is always claimed, on the contrary, the Communist heritage has always been repudiated.

From the hammer and sickle to the oak (the symbol of the Partito Democratico della Sinistra), where did the Republic founded on labour end up?

The Republic “founded on labour” was generated by a compromise between different political powers and in some cases opposing each other. The strong push of Communists and Socialists managed to impose the best possible conditions in that, given national and international context. Let us remember that at the moment of the proclamation of the Constitution, on the 1st January 1948, the Partito Comunista Italiano and Partito Socialista Italiano had already been expelled from the Government six months prior.

Having said that, the Constitution alone, even if noble, cannot be a bastion. What really makes history is the balance of power between social classes. This is the historic materialistic perspective expressed for the first time by Marx and Engels in their Communist Party Manifesto (1948). Absolutely current nowadays.

“Right, left. Stop!” was sung by Gaber in 1994, did they swap their roles today?

No, they did not. Neither in Italy nor in the rest of the world does there exist a nationalist right wing which defends the interests of the people. In similar situations in the past, Communists allied with those kinds of political forces: for example, Mao in China or the CNL (National Liberation Committee) in Italy. Clearly always remaining loyal to Communist principles and postponing the reckoning after the liberation from the foreigner.

Today the nationalist right wing is a caricature. Berlusconi dragged Italy into a criminal war in Libya against its own national interests. Salvini abandoned any drive against the European Union and today is in Draghi’s government. Meloni is not in the government but does not miss a chance to praise Draghi.

The Movimento 5 Stelle betrayed and abandoned all its demands, even some just ones, which led them to become the highest-voted party in Italy. Just to quote two examples: Di Maio shifted from meeting the “Yellow Gilet” to praising Macron, and from requesting Mattarella’s impeachment to supporting his re-election.

The problem is not the ‘swap’ of the right with the left, quite something else! An unofficial Single Liberal Party was created, and all the puppets in it are indistinguishable.

What mistakes have been made to let this happen? What analysis can be done afterwards?

The biggest responsibility falls on us, the communists. We gave up, piece by piece our ideology, our international position and even any class perspective.

Today the Partito Democratico is not even a social democratic party in its original meaning, it is a reformist party which still recognises the border between working class and tycoons. Today the dominant ideology, the only ideology if it was not for the Communists, is the inter-classism that is the negation of social classes’ existence and of the class struggle. Today the workers are inculcated with the idea that they are self-made businessmen. We hear the words “human capital,” a heresy for a Marxist, we hear the praise of meritocracy, which is the opposite of the real merit. It is instead the selection of the most helpful servant, and not the best worker who earns their dignity with their skills and awareness.

Nothing new, this is what bourgeoisie has always aimed for. They achieve it when Communists are weak or absent. Religious ideology, liberalism, fascism and so on, have all this in common: inter-classism, cancel the class struggle from the political scene.

That is why the duty of the Communists is — to bring back their political and organisational ideology to climb out, together with the Italian working class, of the hole where we both fell.

Can we say that Partito Democratico’s leadership hates Russia maybe because Putin is resistant to globalism?

PD’s leadership hates who they are told to hate. I give you some examples: what is the need to go against the little but glorious Cuba, after they helped Italy by sending Medical Brigades during the pandemic? What is the need to provoke Russia, after Putin offered us all the gas supplies we need at pre-crisis prices? It is clear that they received orders from outside.

On the same topic, this week a video-conference was held between the Russian president and a delegation of Italian businessmen. Participants’ feedback was positive but the Italian government forbade ENI to take part in it. But not officially, the government was not brave enough.

I do not want to comment on the Russian president’s personality. I think nobody cares. Better to look at facts. On one side, Russia, just as China, Iran and most of the countries of the world, does not want war. Some for sincere humanism, others for strategic interests, but that does not matter. On the other side, there is the United States, in a deep crisis, where some sections of the ruling class, now prevailing, see war as a way out of it.

‘Globalism’ is a mask, a “false consciousness” as Marx said. The substance is instead: who wants war and who does not. Period.

Who is today converging in protests in Italian squares?

Italian protests and all Western world’s protests are attracting a bit of everything. Protests are expressing deep dissatisfaction for what I would define a crazy management of the pandemic, if only I were not convinced that there are plans behind it to militarise society, foreseeing future wars and international tensions. I feel uncomfortable thinking that someone will give up his salary for refusing a vaccine. I strongly respect him morally, together with dismay for the complete wrong choice of the target to rebel against. The same for people setting themselves on fire in protest, I tell them: if you are ready for such a huge sacrifice, let us do it for a higher cause, for a long lasting solution. Let us aim at the real ‘target,’ let us go to the root of the problem to find a long lasting solution. If all of a sudden pandemic restrictions were lifted, would Italy’s problems be resolved? I do not think so.

Marxism teaches us to distinguish essential issues from marginal issues, to identify the root of the problems and the main enemy. That enemy is not the vaccine but the Capital. I whisper it with respect but this is the limit I recognise in those movements.

How are the new marginalised masses living with the growing automation of production, which instead of making our jobs easier, is depriving us from labour and rights?

This topic is our piece de resistance to explain capitalistic madness. In the past, misery derived from scarcity: famine, wars, plague. Now misery comes from the substitution of workers with technology, labour with capital. Marx already wrote everything which needs to be said on this topic. The wealth for very few, comes from pandemic and wars. Capitalism is not ill, it is the disease.

In between the ‘excluded’ people, we can nowadays also count the independent journalists who are often censored: how has the role of the ‘fourth power’ evolved in recent times?

What we are currently experiencing is nothing new. When has the media ever been free? Since ancient times, power has always bent the information according to its needs. Whomever was not aligned was executed.

A great exception arose during the great season of leftist press during the first years of the Partito Comunista Italiano, when the commitment of its militants could face costs of distribution, fascist and then demochristian censorship and repression. Clearly the bourgeoisie's press tried to compete with that kind of press on the same soil. Of course proper journalists did exist and still do exist but they struggle against the boards of the media they work for regarding what they can and cannot report. Anyway the aforementioned exception has now been ‘normalized’.

Television changed the game. Political struggle moved to a level where the ‘homemade’ militant activity could not compete with the industrially manufactured information. This period coincides with the ideological and organisational decline of the Partito Comunista Italiano. We could add it to the concurrent causes.

The internet has changed the game even more dramatically. One can find everything online, and its opposite. The problem is no longer to produce the information, but to actually reach a significant number of recipients. This causes a big ‘infodemic,’ which is the overproduction of news. This stops the spread of certain news as it is nearly impossible for the vast majority of the population to orientate in the ocean of news because of lack of time and skills.

Adding to this the fact that centralised algorithms and checkers in social media are able to direct the spread of the information, we have a clear picture of today's situation. Censorship is no longer realised by cancelling the information, but mainly by making it impossible to reach. Clearly when that is not enough they go ahead with blocks and cancellations.

Twitter’s ban of Trump during the election campaign is emblematic. Big internet companies can stop even the US President.

Summing up, today’s censorship is mostly created by sinking the news in an ocean of fake news and nonsense which internet users contribute to creating and spreading. A perfect system where we harm ourselves. At the Holy Inquisition’s time, witches were brought to the stake not by authorities but by the people themselves.

In China, some experiments are being carried out to replace anchor men with holograms; what will happen to the journalists? Holograms and cyborgs do not need to eat, rest and be paid. They can work 24/7 and cannot object. What will happen to the truth?

I would not dramatise, what is the difference between a hologram and a human who cannot decide on what or how to report?

If automation enables us to work less and better, then it is welcome. If it enslaves a minority and expels from work a majority, then it is a disaster. But it is not technology’s fault. The problem is not solved by destroying technology but destroying capitalism and replacing it with a more human and efficient system. We call it socialism.

What happened to trade unions? What happened to CGIL (the biggest Italian trade union)?

It is sad answering this question and thinking where ‘my’ CGIL ended up. Let us not even mention the other trade unions. Seeing the data, CGIL is now mostly a trade union of the retirees, a service provider. Trade unions should be something else. It is only in the class struggle that workers can gain back their trade unions and their own main role in society.

When we target the trade unions’ leaderships, we are appealing to the many workers of the trade unions to oppose them. I doubt we will be able to reverse the situation with the CGIL but the attempt itself is at least something.

Landini (CGIL’s general secretary) under the arm of Draghi, Cofferati (former CGIL secretary) who became Bologna’s mayor turned down the protests of the millions of workers protesting against the cancellation of Article 18 (which protected workers from illicit firing). But maybe the beginning of the end started back with Lama and the cancellation of the ‘escalator’ (a mechanism which linked salaries to the inflation rate). Where is the ‘left wing intelligentsia’ hiding? That intelligentsia which used Pasolini for self-suggestion and now are fuelling discriminations? They used to talk as rebels and now became Pfizer’s sponsors. Did philosophers, actors, writers all get sucked into the mainstream point of view? As we said, before the heart of the matter is ideology. If you lose that you lost the compass.

Some intellectuals joined PCI just to boost their own career. PCI wanted them just to be associated with some ‘famous names’. But most of them were anti-communist. I will not repeat that mistake.

What would Gramsci and Berlinguer say if they were resurrected (both of them former secretary of PCI in different times and with different results)?

Gramsci maybe: “I am convinced that even when everything seems lost, one has to calmly restart from the beginning.”

Allow me to make a premise about Berlinguer: we criticised his vision and work, from the “historical compromise” to the “NATO umbrella,” through the choice of the leaders. Berlinguer was not anyway a ‘social-democrat’ in the negative meaning of that time, which was someone who abandoned the aim of socialism. It is just that his path to reach it, according to us, was completely wrong. As Togliatti (another PCI secretary) self-critiqued some of his own decisions in his late life in “Yalta’s memoirs,” maybe the late Belinguer realised he brought the party into a cul de sac.

I choose then this sentence: “There cannot be invention, fantasy nor creation of something new if one buries himself, his own history and reality” quoting him from La Rinascita.

What can we expect from the future seeing the rising tension between Russia and Ukraine, or better Russia and NATO?

The international situation is dramatically clear. On one side an aggressive power which pulls its allies towards war to solve its own economic problems. On the other side the wide majority of nations and all the people which do not want war and have no interests in it. We are not in the same situation as before WWI when all the powerful nations wanted war, we are closer to the WWII scenario where some wanted war and some did not. But unfortunately there was not a strong stand for peace due to the opportunism of so called ‘western democratic countries’.

What can we do? What can you do as political leader to unite the people around a project of new humanity and solidarity?

As Communists we need to do what we have always been doing: study, organise, fight. Give a historical and concrete vision to workers, convey to them the belief that history is not over and perhaps has yet to begin. The difference between a communist and a democrat is that the former sets way higher and durable targets while maintaining a very concrete and humble vision of reality.

(Translation: Federation branch of the Communist Party, Marco Luigi Schlich)