This is the second in a series of articles that, through the testimony of some people I met in George Town (Malaysia), including two artists, aim to explore concrete possibilities of coexistence between different cultures.

I resume here the interview with Sumay Cheah and Joël Lim Du Bois, begun in the previous article.

Sumay, do you share the same Joël vision of how the union of cultural identities, or their division, was in the past and is today?

Sumay Cheah: I think it's really interesting the way we're dealing with this lost culture.

I think I understand that because I look purely Asian, I don't really feel it, but I also understand that for someone who was born and raised abroad, going back to Penang to find their roots is more of a search. Mine is more of a lifestyle, as I grew up here in some ways. So, I think for me all these are familiar, and I don't experience them like him.

For me, my difficulties are due to the passing of my grandparents and the regret of never having had the right conversations with them to save the old stories that I hope to be able to remember and to be able to share their wisdom, an ancestral wisdom.

As for me, I have fewer issues with my identity. Simply because on the Thai side, we have lost the art of speaking Thai. My maternal side comes from Trang, which is located in the southern part of Thailand.

And I like the idea of ​​feeling mixed. Just because I think Malaysia makes us feel like we are a melting pot of everything. I used to study in a local national school, where all my classmates were from different backgrounds and cultures.

I sometimes feel that, as children usually put skin colors and a lot of other things aside, they do not experience this segregation, which is a condition pushed on by adults.

So, I had a happy time growing up, visiting friends’ houses during the multicultural festive seasons. There is just a lot of harmony.

Also, even in the big local cities, such as Kuala Lumpur, we are all still very culturally connected. There is not sense of feeling divided, and being a mix of everything is a very normal and sometimes celebrated thing.

Joël Lim Du Bois: From my point of view, I have a feeling it used to be different.

It's true that when my mother grew up, for example, the different cultures were separate, in a way, and everyone clung to their own traditions, but there was much more acceptance. Years ago, for instance, during the Chinese New Year, you invited your Indian friends and your Malay friends, and they accepted without any problem; nowadays, it would not happen anymore because for Malays, it could be haram (any behavior or situation forbidden in Islam).

It used to be okay for Chinese people to go to Hari Raya or Eid, the main Islamic festival. And there was much more of a sense of community, of all being Malaysians, all locals, all friends, all getting along.

Even in your work, Sumay, I see many references to different Malay cultural traditions.

Sumay Cheah: I think mine is not a political choice but a very personal choice of the artist. I was just saying that all my projects are inspired and made contemporary by what I am familiar with seeing. I do not see them tied to tradition in a certain sense, and there is no reference to politics.

It's more the beauty of the design, the light and shadow coming together, but also the celebration of the different motifs, which, as you can see, none of them are classic. They are all somehow remade based on what I think cultural design could be or based on how I feel when I’m inspired by Peranakan design.

In this way I am telling people that they can create their own design, still celebrating their culture in the way they want, without being too traditional or too rigid.

It's funny that we're talking about this topic because a little while ago, during the presentation of the exhibition, I was talking to someone in the audience, and I was sharing with her the fact that in reality, we are all interconnected.

Like the people of Sabah and Sarawak, where East Malaysia is, they have ancestral roots that go all the way back to Taiwan, and they share the same languages. And as Joel said, in my family we speak Hokkien, which has a lot of Malay words.

I often get confused with languages ​​because, depending on the person I am speaking to, I speak Mandarin, Malay, or Hokkien, or, as with Joel, English; it is like changing the frequency of a radio station, though it gets confusing as a speaker. I do, however, feel grateful, although not entirely fluent in all, to be able to speak in different dialects and languages.

Joël Lim Du Bois: But at the same time, you represent a certain kind of mixed Malay cosmopolitan or Penangite. So, in terms of languages, ​​you speak English, Mandarin, Hokkien, Malay, and Chinese, and in your work, you have Malay motifs, but you also have Peranakan motifs (people of Chinese/Malaysian/Indonesian descent), as well as Japanese motifs.

What you do, Sumay, influences others, so in that sense, your work is politics. It seems to me that your work, Joel, deals more with our rational side, and your art, Cheah, with our emotional side. But even if they seem to be two different things, they are in fact closely related.

Sumay Cheah: That’s really interesting; that’s nice. I was just telling you how every time I design a space, it’s very intuitive.

As if I could change here and there after “feeling” the space. So, it’s not a fixed, pre-established process. It’s more about “seeing” the way in, the way it flows, and allowing change to occur as each project grows.

Sometimes people might not understand why I don't stay true to the initial project, but I think in many things we have to leave that void of imagination and feel the space.

And then in your installations, you must deal with materials, with their materiality. Going back to your work here, even the way all the parts of the bamboo structure are fixed says something very specific because you are not using metal nails, for example, but wooden ones. And you use recycled material. So, you're really saying that not only is this a space where you can listen to relaxing music, see floating shapes, smell perfumes, and feel the space you're in, but it's also a place that says something very clearly in terms of your formal choices.

Sumay Cheah: I think my challenge this time was to combine art, design, culture, and craftsmanship.

This was the challenge for this edition. So, I tried. It was a great discovery, lesson, and experience, and I really liked how it turned out. For example, the bamboo I used came from the Indigenous community of Temiar, Perak.

Joël Lim Du Bois: Yeah, as we said before, at first it feels like we're coming from different places, but we found that there's so much shared perspective, shared philosophy. Even just arranging the lights inside today, as if we were trying to respond to the space.

It’s not easy to see artists sharing the same space, working together in a collaborative way. You’re not competing, and it’s probably easier in a place like Penang simply because there are so many activities and cultural influences coming together.

Joël Lim Du Bois: It’s a very collaborative and collective place, especially in the art scene. We have this culture, the Malay-Indonesian Nusantara concept of gotong-royong, where everyone helps each other. So, the whole village comes together to help an individual, and we have that in Penang.

Sumay Cheah: I think so too; everyone helps each other here.

Even today? Is it easier in a rural area or even in an urban area?

Sumay Cheah: I think it depends on the industry and the community you are in. So far, I’ve been lucky to have experiences with very supportive communities.

To be continued…